Hello Fediverse!

What are your opinions about Delta Chat?

Is it good? Any hidden problems?

Should I recommend it for non-technical people?

@switchingsocial If you send from a non-Gmail address to Gmail, some messages might get rejected from Google, especially the read receipts (as far as my experience goes)

@jlelse @switchingsocial no proplems seen so far, but just wrote a few (~10) messages GMail <-> DC

@tobi @switchingsocial It probably also depends about the time between messages etc. Nobody knows how Google's filter work.

@jlelse @switchingsocial Yeah, also Microsoft Outlook Webversion sometimes filters emails from private servers. So, better not to use that companie's services at all.

@switchingsocial @jlelse If you use it with Gmail, then Google will have access to all your messages. The level of privacy and security is dictated by your email provider and that of your chat partner, since, in the end, you're exchanging emails.

@jlelse @switchingsocial Sorry, was answering the question, not trying to splain to you - given your toot I figured you're well versed.

@offtheball @switchingsocial I know, the problem are people not willing to switch to a more privacy oriented provider. Maybe we should boycott them 😂

@offtheball @switchingsocial err... no ?
The point with #DeltaChat is to have opportunistic e2e-encryption, using autocrypt. So gmail won't have access to the messages (but , still to the metadata :/)

@offtheball really !? I thought DeltaChat was taking care of that e2e part... meh 😐

@jaxom_kaplan Oh hey, so I misremembered (or misinterpreted) their FAQ a bit.

The encryption will happen automatically if everyone's using Delta.

However, part of the appeal is you can just chat with any email address, and it'll show up to those people as emails.

So, that only applies if you're using it to chat to people not using Delta.

@offtheball yeah, okay, that's what I interpreted too. And as I saw unfit to answer DC'messages from a usual mail client, I assumed my recipient would then install DC as well.

So : not so bad, but still no magic charm x)

@jaxom_kaplan Yeah, thanks for pulling me up on that. It's good to know you could use this to chat more securely, without having to go to the trouble of switching providers.

But, eh, security is so complicated, why there gotta be so many caveats, hey what if Google was just good with security and privacy and we could not worry about it so much?

@switchingsocial I think the idea isn't that bad.At least you can reach really everyone using it.But the email protocol is too slow for a realtime chat in my opinion.It was built for a few big messages and DeltaChat is abusing it for thousands of small messages.I don't think that this will work for big masses.Email providers will need to buy more servers or ban users which send high amounts of messages if DeltaChat continues to grow.

@nipos I agree. It would make more sense to use a protocol which can be streamed, rather than to prepare an entire transport for each chat message.

That's also why there are also efforts to add a "streaming inbox" to ActivityPub/Litepub which PleromaChat will be able to make use of.



Main problem for me - I'm using mail client and it start to show me a lot of notifications while I'm chatting with delta chat.

For the rest it is awesome.

@jinxx @switchingsocial The idea is basically to abuse an existing, insecure, unfixable technology for a use case it cannot hold up to by keeping all the accumulated problems with security, privacy and adding problems with interoperability.

Stay far away from it.

@switchingsocial I used to use it for some time. But my fellows were rather confused.

@switchingsocial I wouldn't recommend it. It is based in email, so the vast majority of it is not encrypted. For non-tech people, it should be used something secure by default.
@switchingsocial I've had very positive experience with #DeltaChat . Using the Android client from F-Droid, #selfhosted email server.

The one-to-one chat is rock solid. Autocrypt (end to end encryption) works automatically if both sides using Delta Chat client. Sending large images, emoji, all work seamlessly.

I tried 2 android phones side by side sending messages to each other - It's almost as fast as WhatsApp 😮​

I tried sending messages to people using Gmail or Exchange, and they had no problem viewing my messages. Reply also works very well between Delta Chat client and Gmail client

Haven't tried group chats so can't comment on it

Oh, and the app is quite friendly on phone's battery life 🔋​

Conclusion: Awesome concept, solid execution
To me it's the ONLY real alternative to use a FLOSS Messager app with my REAL contacts (not just myself or an 5% of my contacts who use, for example, Signal, Matrix, etc.). Everybody has an email address, so I can reach everybody using #deltachat, even if they don't use it.

It has some cons, of course, but used with other deltachat contact, it's as quick as Telegram like apps.

For me, at last, a MUST.

@switchingsocial I've only played a little with Delta. I like the idea and it seems beginner friendly. My first complaint is that gmail doesn't recognize it as one ongoing conversation like the chat app does. Anyone stuck using their email gets a whole new email for each response instead of seeing it as a reply. Complaint #2 is that protonmail gives an imap error and their idea of help is telling you to ask a friend. That part is not cool for less tech savvy users.

main reason I didn't start trying to recommend it was that the users would need to know all their imap settings.
bit of a barrier to entry, imo (at least for non-technical types that don't know about "email server settings")

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